Malaysia-Singapore
Buying Russian fighters
Is Malaysia in arms race with "southern neighbour?" Several e-letters on Malaysiakini.
Dec 1, 2002

The following AFP story has raised a brief debate about a possible arms race:

MOSCOW - Russia's Sukhoi 30MK jet fighters will be part of Malaysia's upgraded air force, the Sukhoi producer's spokesman said Friday as quoted by the Interfax news agency.
Malaysia would buy both Russia's Su-30MK fighters and US-made F-18E "Superhornets", Vitaly Zelenkov of Russia's Irkutsk aviation factory said.
The number of fighters and other conditions had not yet been specified, Zelenkov said.
The Sukhoi jetfighters were among those considered by Malaysia for the Royal Malaysian Air Force as part of Malaysia's military upgrading process. - AFP

Malaysiakini.
I wonder the reasons for acquiring such high-tech and awesome firepower? Are we in an arms race? Who are our enemies? Any comments?
MSZ

There isn't a good reason why we should not upgrade our fighters.
Our "southern neighbour" is bristling with armory, probably ten times more than what Malaysia has currently or will plan to have in the future.
Remember, that "southern neighbour" has relations with a nuclear-powered Apartheid State that is currently enjoying support of the United States.
Personally, I think that it is about time that we move into the "offensive" zone, so to speak...there will be many external threats to the country as we begin to grow and prosper and become an international player. Regards.
menj

Good point.
However bear in mind that with the complement of the Su-30mks and the super bugs, the Malaysian military doctrine has automatically shifted from defensive to an offensive one.
Bear in mind that the sukhois are capable as air superiority and long range strike aircraft.
With a range capable to reach Vietnam and Australia, the sukhois would put some neighbours in state of frenzy.
Not that we are itching for a fight with a one southern neighbour, but yes, the new warplanes, I reckon will spark a "minor" arms race in SEA.
cheers
MSZ

MENJ wrote:
"Well if you ask me, I think that "southern neighbour" you are referring to are bristling with armory, probably ten times more than what Malaysia has currently or will plan to have in the future. Remember, that "southern neighbour" has relations with a nuclear-powered Apartheid State that is currently enjoying support of the United States."
Your prejudice is showing.
Does Malaysia not have laws like that of an Apartheid State?
So if it is for you, why is it not good for them?
PermeSK

With regards to the "southern neighbour", we would have to factor in our Astros Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) which is quite capable of rendering all that wonderful weapons to waste when used in a pre-emptive strike.
Further, we do have relations with a nuclear-powered state too, namely Pakistan.
While the SU-30 would probably be able to reach Vietnam and Australia on a one-hop joy ride, without air-air refueling capability, they would be useless in an offensive capacity.
We do not currently have enough strike aircraft nor airborne tankers to do substantial damage to our neighbours if push came to shove.
We are absolutely entitled to acquire both offensive and defensive arms to support our agenda.
Either we arm ourselves like we mean it, or follow New Zealand's example and disarm. I do not think that we can survive in the future if we do not have the arms and expertise to deter aggression.
If Singapore believes us to be a threat and arms itself as it has and continues to do, then we should respond accordingly.
I have no problem with Malaysia taking measures to arm ourselves with nuclear weapons for use with the SU-30's. We may not be able to win against a hyper-power like the United States, but even Bush would think twice about parking a carrier battle group too close to our shores if we were able to take it out with a single strike.
The objective is to deter aggression and to ensure our survival. With military strength come economic prosperity.
Johan Ismail

Nicely put Johan. However if the US decided to waste the fatherland, not enough number so sukhois and migs could deter the US naval forces. With regards to the one "southern" neighbour, you should read in the military discussion how highly they have thought of themselves and their SAF.
Yes, I do agree to flexing of military strength in these dangerous and perilous times however, the question is do we do it right?
A couple of sukhois and migs woud not make much difference. I reckon we need numbers and quality systems (means, bvr missiles, advanced AEW, smart weapons and smart people operating them). Glad to hear ur views.
MSZ

Agreed. In the event of a full scale war, I doubt any country in the world would be able to withstand an American onslaught. However, I would think that the issue is not about "winning"a war but having the capability of inflicting as much damage as possible to their naval assets in retaliation to an American air strike.
A couple of SU-30's would make a difference if they were armed with nuclear weapons. Realistically though, nuclear capability is as much a political weapon as it is a military one.
I seriously doubt that Bush would be so cocky if the Iraqis had a few nukes in their arsenal. We do need more and better quality conventioanl weapons, no doubt about that, but I feel that the only option for the future is to acquire the technology for creating and delivering nuclear weapons.
The Singaporeans are however a different kettle of fish. I have watched proceedings of the Singaporean Parliament where their MPs were mouthing off about how they could give us a bloody nose if we were to ever attempt a military incursion into Singapore.
While this sabre-rattling is surely for domestic consumption it does tend to demonstrate the siege mentality of our Southern neighbours.
The SAF is indeed a formidable force, compared to Fiji, however, they have the distinct disadvantage of not being able to manuever within Singapore. The only option for them would be to take the fight into Johor and hold Malaysian territory as a bargaining chip.
This would put their forces at risk against our superior numbers, not only the ATM but also every Malaysian who could wield a parang. They may be able to come, the question is, can they go home in one piece.
Johan Ismail
Dec 1, 2002
Today many people seem to be in denial.
However.... in the 70s and 80s army barracks and camps in the vicinity of Chinese New Villages was a common enough sight.
Lee Kuan Yew in his memoirs describing a parallel situation which obtained in Singapore in the 60s and 70s when the police force was largely of a particular ethnic background notes that the populace 'was cowed and sullen'.
Of course he took immediate measures to remove the alienation felt by his people.
What with urbanisation and new demographic patterns, the situation in Malaysia is quite different now.
Still it is rumoured that it was as easy for an Indonesian to come into possession of a 'blue ic' as it is for me to buy a packet of cigarettes.
In the 70s the government coined a new term more suggestive of welcome to describe the throngs of Indonesians illegally entering Malaysia, insisting that the media use the new more polite term.
People do not forget such hurts readily. In the appendix to his book, The Battle for Merger, Lee Kuan took issue with Radio Malayasia, Kuala Lumpur for referring to the Indonesian leaders who were bent on the destruction of Malaysia as 'saudara' while at the same time reserving a very distant form of address for him and his colleagues who were prepared to lay down their lives in the defence of the country.
ramalingam rengasamy

The su30 mk that has been offerred to Malaysia is not yet in service
anywhere in the world. This aircraft is to be manufactured at a factory in Irkutz.
This type also has been offerred to India. India signed the agreement in 1996 but to date none has been delivered.
The type is known as su30mki. It is supposed to have components from
Israel, Europe, Russia and India. This project had been plagued by
innumerable problems that each is blaming the other - Russians blamed the Indians for the delay and the Indians blamed the Russians.
The same type is now offered to Malaysia to be known as su30 mkm.
Malaysia wants the Israeli component to be replaced and other new
components added. It is learnt that from the original price of about us40 million each, with the new additions it will now cost around us60 million.
It would have been better to buy an already tested fighter jet than this one as this one is not tested yet. Futhermore if India is facing this delay, then Malaysia should expect the same to happen.
The su30mk offerred to Malaysia will not be inducted into the Russian Air Force and as the number ordered by Malaysia is very limited, Malaysia will also face problems of getting spares.
Singapore is therefore not worried about this purchase.
Ahmad Mustapha Md. Hassan

In any case, its not the plane that makes the difference. Other factors are number of them, of that number how many of them are combat readiness (these are thoroughbred machines, requiring a very high level of support), what support level in the various airforce airfields in Msia, level of training of pilots, avionics that come with it (radar, anti missile countermeasures), ability to concentrate those forces in a short time, etc etc
As you can read in the newspapers, we do not particularly excel in some of thise factors. Our training and fighter planes goes down regularly, there are all kinds of scandals on servicing standards and our armed forces' accountability is apalling. Sure we can afford to buy them.
KSChin
(These e-letters were posted in www.malaysiakini.com, Malaysia's premier electronic newspaper and sangkanchil chatsite.)