Character weakness ..
.. That has to change
Who are graduates losing out on jobs to foreigners: Is it skills or poor managers. Hardwarezone forum.
Mar 15, 2004

About jobless
Feb 28, 2004
"RoaringLion" says:
The jobs are there...but somehow the Singaporean graduates do not have the right mindset to get those jobs.
I have done a lot of interviews over the last 1.5 years. Most of them are IT or engineering diploma grads. I must say that I am really disappointed with our local graduates during those job interviews.
This is a typical example of what you can see when I am interviewing local grads.
1) Poor dress They don't even wear properly when attending interviews. Come with T-shirt and jeans. For goodness sake, you are applying for at least an assistant engineer level, not a cleaner or sweeper.
The FTs (foreign talents) on the other hands come with long sleeve shirt and pants. Same diploma cert, same age, but they took the trouble to set a good impression. The polytechnics should give our local some grooming courses.
2) They don't even bother to ask who I am or shake my hands. If I don't introduce myself or offer my hand, they will just come in and sit there as if it's their house.
Our local grads have terrible social skills. The FTs, on the other hand, are better at this. At this point, even before the interview is conducted, the local grad already has lost to the FT on two counts (poor dress, poor grooming).
3) Worse of all, our local grads have unrealistic expectations and terribly fussy on salaries. Some don't like the idea that the working location is far from their houses.
Some say they need to think twice when they are told that the working hours start very early. Some are unhappy just because the pay is $100 less of what they had in mind.
The list goes on. It's amazing how our local grads have this "pampered" mindset when the job market is so bad. The FT on the other hand, wouldn't care less on all these factors as long they get the job.
If you were me, who would you recruit? It's not that I have something against the local grads...in fact I want them to get the jobs, but the locals do not know how to cherish that job opportunity themselves.
They don't care about setting first impression, they have poor social skills during interview and they have fussy expectations in their job remuneration. The FTs are way better in handling all these.
So when the FTs get the job and the local doesn't get it, they come here and make a lot of noise.

"Y2Koh" says:
Agreed...
but actually how you dress up can be quite subjective. Of course T-shirts and jeans are a bit too much.
On the other hand, many companies today don't really mind whether you wear a tie or long sleeve, pure-coloured shirts and a-pek pants, or casual smart attire, ultimately it depends on what are you applying for.
Sometimes your taste in your choice of clothes (eg. looking too a-pek or too formal) can be a deterrent.
Politeness is the key, shaking hands is of course one of the neccessary formalities required in an act of politeness, your speech and body language is even more important, and that include some very small habitual movements you should avoid.
But then again, don't be too "ging" (look as if you are acting), honesty is the most important of all.

"Xjedi" says:
Well said! I believe the youth nowadays are too well-sheltered ... so they don't really bother if they are without jobs ...

"Confused" says:
Poly grads probably think they can always study if they can't find job mentality?

"Roaringlion" says:
Some of the China FTs were far more impressive. They always come in long sleeve shirt and pants. Tie is not important to me though...as long you try to look good for your level (assistant engineer) that's good enough for me.
But the best thing about the China FTs is that they try very hard to speak in English during the interview.
Sometimes I would tell them that it is ok for them to speak to me in Chinese, but they will ALWAYS speak in English.
Considering that they have weak oral English, such attempt from them is admirable.
I really hope that the local grads wake themselves up before saying why all jobs go to FT.
I am not from the agency. I have my own company and I need to employ people from time to time.
To me, salary expectation is very important. If I can offer only say $1,500 and the candidate expects to have $1,800, I will never call that guy up for interview.
Experience tells me that for locals, they will never accept a job $300 below their expectations. Only the FT would.
Think its more because they have a doting and pampering parents behind them who will still give them pocket money even if they can't find a job.

"Newgamerguy" says:
Jeans & tee shirts for interview... hmm... hard to believe actually, but I do agree that locals lack basic skills like not sitting down before being invited, shaking hands, etc. I'm one of them
However, I think its because of our society, "kiasuism" (afraid to lose), arrogance, etc.
The people are not brought up 'properly' but I think it can be fixed relatively easily. The parents just have to imbue these qualities to the children.
It always that the employees are choosy, ask for the sky, etc. However sometimes its the employers that are exploiting the employees, low pay, long hours.
How can you expect people to work 12, 13, 14 hrs per day for you, its not healthy.
If an employee can't finish her work, its either she's not up to it or that the boss is basically giving her too much to do.
Working long hours is just like when people perceive FTs are cheaper. How long can people stay cheap? Can they stay at $1,500 for 5 years? Can you work 13 hrs everyday for 5 years?
I don't think most people can. This sort of stuff is not sustainable, meaning if that's the quality that you're looking for when hiring, then I seriously think that you're hiring the wrong girl for the job.
Why don't we help them instead of condemning them, help them means 'educating' them.

"Warr" says:
Singaporeans are known to have little mind and short eyesight, well, it's understandable since we're all brought up in on a small red dot. If it was not for the government sitting on top of the citizens with a wide long time vision, Singapore could hardly come to today.
But the irony is, the citizens still every day complain about the MIW (men-in-white or political leaders), thinking they can do better than the current (ruling) PAP (People's Action Party) with such kind of attitude.
Just read the forum and you will get to see how many poor citizens have lame attitudes when their jobs are gone. However they still blame on the FTs and the government.
Don't expect the PAP to clean up the toilet for you.

"Roaringlion" says:
(Commenting on "unnamed79" who said:
Or is it that FT might see $1500 as a high pay. You must understand where they come from. Back in their country, SGD$1500 is a lot of money.
But for singaporeans, they are brought up in a environment that sees $1500 as a small amount.
But i am sure in time to come, our young will change their mindset and accept lower wages jobs.)
Seriously, as an employer, why should I consider this rationale?
I just want someone with good skills and low pay. If the locals can't change their mindset, I can't possibly empathise with them and give them a high pay.
And you know what.......I hired two fresh polytechnic graduates (locals) two weeks ago and now they want to resign. Waste my time training them. The job scope was given during the interview and if they didn't feel comfortable about the job, shouldn't have taken it. I don't get such problems from the FTs.
Sometimes as an employer, I want to help the locals get jobs. I can't take too many FTs either because there is a quota, but the locals are fussy and they can't take hardship.
Of course, not everyone is like that, but the majority is. And that's why a majority of these people are whining here (in this forum).
The FTs in my company come back on Saturdays and Sundays without OY (overtime). They are engineers, and it is understood that for them, they don't qualify for overtime.
They work an additional two hours a day and come back on Saturdays and Sundays. No OT at all. They just want to get the job done. And normally for FTs, their families are not here, so they have nothing to do by staying at home. Going out would means spending money. So they come back to work...at at least get some job done.
For this kind of effort, even if they were to leave after one project, I think I already got my money's worth.
Locals? They leave right on the dot and I hardly see anyone of them on Saturdays/Sundays.

"Warr" says:
(commenting on NewGamerGuy who wrote: "OT is not necessary if you get your job done on time. Staying back after work doesnt mean that you're a better worker.")
Talk is cheap.
Only BRIGHT managers see this fact. 90% of managers are not bright.

"Unsetbay" says:
My previous company had these Chinese engineers working in the same department> I won't comment on the rest of the chinese FTs who were the same as them.
One of the engineers who came here earlier and got his PR (permanent residence) really had turned to another person, saying he would only work when the bosses work hard.
He would be the "yes" man to the GM but behind the GM's back, he would curse the bosses. They even took some of the (office) items home.
The working environment was stressful & every one was being pushed to the limit by the GM, but they still were able to smile & hang on to it.
Why? I asked them. They told me they hated the place too but they didn't have much options & it was difficult to get another job.
Perhaps the employers should also have questioned why their company had a high turnover rate?
Is it because of mismanagement or inefficient managers? Could it be work was not being fairly distributed?

"Warr" says:
The reason lies there: most of the managers climb up from years of experience. read: years.
They are the patient people. They stay there for years when other people leave and go. They are the only ones left to promote. It is not that they have the damn management skills. It is still a common practice nowadays and life continues to be this way.

"Farkthesystem" says:
That may be true for some companies, but there are others that have young managers who are equally incapable.
I believe a big reason why we have such bad management generally is because insufficient processes are put in place in companies for getting potential hopefuls to under-study their managers.
Worse still most managers are so insecure about their job they seldom, if ever, teach their subordinates anything.
Add to that is the fact that in Singapore, almost every one is only interested in making the most money while doing the least work, and you know what I mean. Lack of principals maybe?
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